<html>
<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>steering meeting 2018-10-26 · t-compiler · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/index.html">t-compiler</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html">steering meeting 2018-10-26</a></h3>

<hr>

<base href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com">

<head><link href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/style.css" rel="stylesheet"></head>

<a name="136548981"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136548981" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136548981">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Howdy <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="492">@T-compiler</span>! I'm running a few minutes late as usual =)</p>



<a name="136549006"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549006" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549006">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I compiled <em>most</em> of the survey responses here into <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HAq1D7OC616Nd_34olPalQi-EL4RDbBrsSO9ZZ6SJJc/edit#gid=0" target="_blank" title="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HAq1D7OC616Nd_34olPalQi-EL4RDbBrsSO9ZZ6SJJc/edit#gid=0">this google doc</a></p>



<a name="136549034"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549034" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549034">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Not a perfect compilation, it wasn't always clear when to "de-dup", but it gives you a sense</p>



<a name="136549047"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549047" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549047">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let me start by just relating a few things re: this meeting—</p>



<a name="136549106"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549106" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549106">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>First is that I'm not 100% sure what it should become =) but what I was imagining is that — longer term — we use the opportunity to check in and do two things:</p>
<ul>
<li>During most of the year, consult our "big picture roadmap goals", assess our progress, and decide if we want to tweak them</li>
<li>During planning parts of the year, try to think about what those goals should be</li>
</ul>



<a name="136549121"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549121" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549121">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>But for this particular meeting I thought it might be nice to try and do a bit of an "assessment" instead</p>



<a name="136549149"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549149" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549149">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>There is a sort of "standard procedure" that I've seen proposed which seems to make sense to me...</p>



<a name="136549193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549193">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I assume the B (and D) columns are the number of responses that said the thing in A (and C) ?</p>



<a name="136549211"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549211" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549211">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>(yep)</p>



<a name="136549230"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549230" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549230">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>...basically to start with a list of "good, bad" (sort of like we have), spend a bit of time reading them, and then place some votes for which ones to talk about (not necessarily the ones that came up most often). Go through those in turn a bit, and then try to draw up some conclusions</p>



<a name="136549254"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549254" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549254">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>(To place votes, we would edit the spreadsheet, I can add some columns for that to let you mark down which ones you think are worth talking about)</p>



<a name="136549264"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549264" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549264">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Curious to hear though what others think :) seem like a reasonable way to start?</p>



<a name="136549284"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549284">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>out of curiosity, did any of the resposnses seem to contradict each other?</p>



<a name="136549334"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549334" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549334">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I cannot immediate tell from spreadsheet)</p>



<a name="136549347"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549347" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549347">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>not too much</p>



<a name="136549359"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549359" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549359">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there were some things that were "at odds" to <em>some</em> extent — but not really in <em>contradiction</em></p>



<a name="136549381"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549381" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549381">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., we do good at mentoring, but we could have more mentoring and more intermediate-level issues available</p>



<a name="136549401"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549401" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549401">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>or, we stay on top of regressions for the most part, but there is a low bus factor and/or triage meetings could be more efficient</p>



<a name="136549491"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549491" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549491">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>okay. Well the idea of voting sounds fine to me</p>



<a name="136549493"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549493" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549493">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Should we try the voting thing? How many people are here -- I see 11 <span class="emoji emoji-1f44b" title="wave">:wave:</span> and/or <span class="emoji emoji-1f980" title="crab">:crab:</span> above =) -- that would affect how many "votes" we each have to give I think)</p>



<a name="136549528"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549528" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549528">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>does google spreadsheet provide an atomic increment ?</p>



<a name="136549533"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549533" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549533">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I removed my crab reaction and only kept the "wave"</p>



<a name="136549555"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549555" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549555">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok so I made some columns</p>



<a name="136549559"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549559" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549559">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>let's say we each have... 3 votes</p>



<a name="136549561"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549561" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549561">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>put an <code>x</code> in the column</p>



<a name="136549565"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549565" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549565">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>to vote for a given topic</p>



<a name="136549613"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549613" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549613">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>you have 5 minutes, or add an emoji to this when you're done =)</p>



<a name="136549616"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549616" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549616">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah okay, string length is #votes</p>



<a name="136549618"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549618" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549618">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>if we run out of columns, add more</p>



<a name="136549637"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549637" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549637">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Perhaps people can put their names on top of columns to make it easier to keep track of?</p>



<a name="136549642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549642">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or would it be better to keep it anonymous?</p>



<a name="136549651"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549651" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549651">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116107">@davidtwco</span> I didn't think we each had our own column</p>



<a name="136549663"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549663" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549663">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>my edits don't show up</p>



<a name="136549664"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549664" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549664">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>why am I not seeing things</p>



<a name="136549667"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549667" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549667">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Could add more.</p>



<a name="136549668"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549668" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549668">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>mine either :) not sure what's up with that</p>



<a name="136549669"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549669" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549669">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>(since there are only five columns? Or maybe I misunderstood)</p>



<a name="136549679"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549679" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549679">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe it's the font?</p>



<a name="136549779"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549779" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549779">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>(ok, well, I'm not sure what's up with <code>x</code> not always showing up -- I've found it matters which column)</p>



<a name="136549789"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549789" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549789">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I had in mind what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> suggested, that you just put the <code>x</code> in the right spot, not mark your name, because I didn't know full set of folks</p>



<a name="136549815"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549815" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549815">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>d'oh I was supposed to create another column for my votes</p>



<a name="136549827"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549827" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549827">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>are the <code>x</code>s on the left or right?</p>



<a name="136549876"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549876" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549876">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh wait, there are two columns</p>



<a name="136549880"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549880" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549880">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I had thought they were on the right</p>



<a name="136549885"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549885" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549885">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>action item for the next meeting, find a way of making voting easier</p>



<a name="136549886"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549886" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549886">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>not sure how I missed that</p>



<a name="136549893"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549893" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549893">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>Some columns had the font colour set to white..</p>



<a name="136549900"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549900" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549900">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>voting in zulip (via emojis) is a kind of option.</p>



<a name="136549927"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549927" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549927">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe that would have been better, but oh well</p>



<a name="136549928"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549928" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549928">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's so hard to pick just 3...</p>



<a name="136549929"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549929" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549929">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems to be working ok now</p>



<a name="136549933"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549933" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549933">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>does "faster build times" mean building the compiler itself?</p>



<a name="136549934"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549934" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549934">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>wow that's quite a winner</p>



<a name="136549947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549947">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>does "faster build times" mean building the compiler itself?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="136549974"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136549974" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136549974">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>people still voting?</p>



<a name="136550078"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550078" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550078">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>Seems like the most <code>x</code>'d things are:</p>
<ul>
<li>hard to answer  "what to do next" or "how can I help" (8)</li>
<li>faster build times (for building <code>rustc</code> itself) (4)</li>
<li>bors times (for building <code>rustc</code> itself) (4)</li>
<li>public roadmap (4)</li>
<li>delegating and mentoring to newcomers (4)</li>
<li>hard to do high-level design + planning and not just triage (3)</li>
<li>no central place to get "big picture" of what's going on (3)</li>
<li>technical debt in compiler, heterogeneous structure (3)</li>
</ul>



<a name="136550088"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550088" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550088">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>er I was too fast :) will edit</p>



<a name="136550181"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550181" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550181">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>some of these feel mildly "duplicate", e.g., "high-level design / public roadmap / big picture"</p>



<a name="136550183"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550183" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550183">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>8 topics. 40 minutes</p>



<a name="136550190"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550190" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550190">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>(some topics can be merged)</p>



<a name="136550242"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550242" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550242">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>do we attempt to eagerly merge now, before we start, so that we know how to allocate time?</p>



<a name="136550292"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550292" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550292">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we will not pick all 8 =) yes I would say maybe:</p>
<p>Seems like the most <code>x</code>'d things are:</p>
<ul>
<li>"how to plan what to do and expose our plans"<br>
    - hard to answer  "what to do next" or "how can I help" (8)<br>
    - public roadmap (4)<br>
    - hard to do high-level design + planning and not just triage (3)<br>
    - no central place to get "big picture" of what's going on (3)</li>
<li>"improving QoL and infrastructure"<br>
    - faster build times (for building <code>rustc</code> itself) (4)<br>
    - bors times (for building <code>rustc</code> itself) (4)</li>
<li>delegating and mentoring to newcomers (4)</li>
<li>technical debt in compiler, heterogeneous structure (3)</li>
</ul>



<a name="136550302"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550302" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550302">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or just get started and say that we will try to shoot for 7-10 minutes per topic or something?</p>



<a name="136550335"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550335" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550335">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>we don't have that much time -- maybe shoot for 10-15 minutes on the first one and go from there?</p>



<a name="136550357"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550357" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550357">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I'll open up the floor here — I definitely feel this pain too, hence this meeting :)</p>



<a name="136550374"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550374" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550374">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>So: There are whole businesses dedicated to trying to help companies solve this problem, no?</p>



<a name="136550398"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550398" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550398">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like we should not jump to a technical sol'n :) or maybe that's not what you're proposing :)</p>



<a name="136550450"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550450" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550450">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh I more mean its a hard problem, that's all.</p>



<a name="136550472"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550472" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550472">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>We've talked in the past of alternating the weekly meeting</p>



<a name="136550475"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550475" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550475">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>My thought so far has been that we should -- starting <em>now</em> but also with this round of the roadmap process — try to establish what our big goals will be for e.g. next year. Then we should establish working groups focused on those goals — each of them needs an active leader. This is sort of where the rubber hits the road, though, because "active leaders" are hard...</p>



<a name="136550479"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550479" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550479">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>between triage vs high-level work</p>



<a name="136550482"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550482" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550482">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>...my sense is that the NLL Working Group worked <em>really well</em></p>



<a name="136550503"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550503" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550503">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>in terms of "having a clear goal", "bringing in people", etc</p>



<a name="136550516"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550516" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550516">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it kind of had both <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> and I devoting time to triage etc</p>



<a name="136550527"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550527" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550527">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>still, I think that overall model -- having some goals, milestones, and an internal triage process -- is great</p>



<a name="136550547"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550547" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550547">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's often good to have a "team of leaders" for an effort/working group</p>



<a name="136550561"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550561" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550561">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>with "team" meaning ~2 people</p>



<a name="136550600"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550600" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550600">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would love it if there was a T-compiler landing page where you could go that listed each of the "Active efforts" and some key information about how to get involved</p>



<a name="136550606"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550606" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550606">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I think that's potentially a really good model</p>



<a name="136550642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550642">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also think that the NLL working group was a better success than the "general working groups" we tried for the .. oh what did we call that? the big push we did at the end of 2017 :)</p>



<a name="136550666"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550666" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550666">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>impl period</p>



<a name="136550668"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550668" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550668">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>impl period?</p>



<a name="136550671"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550671" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550671">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think beacuse it had clearer goals and a domain, vs like "the rustc-middle working group"</p>



<a name="136550673"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550673" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550673">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, impl period ;)</p>



<a name="136550683"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550683" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550683">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>following that, it would also be nice to have a short description of what areas of specialism people were, so anyone could identify who might be good to ask about topic X, or for review</p>



<a name="136550696"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550696" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550696">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I think it's often good to have a "team of leaders" for an effort/working group</p>
</blockquote>
<p>one thing I would like to see here: can we use this as a mentoring opportunity?</p>



<a name="136550698"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550698" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550698">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>NLL also had a feature that was visible at the user level (which may have helped get volunteers initially involved)</p>



<a name="136550701"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550701" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550701">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>yea even the 2017-era NLL WG seemed more successful than the other WGs</p>



<a name="136550784"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550784" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550784">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think NLL was also a "lot of small feature" problem where lots of people could get involved</p>



<a name="136550786"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550786" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550786">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., a "senior" leader -- say, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124287">@mw</span> -- paired up with somebody who hasn't been around as long, presuming we can find people interested :)</p>



<a name="136550787"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550787" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Vadim Petrochenkov <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550787">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>big push we did at the end of 2017 </p>
</blockquote>
<p>From that I mostly remember the even bigger rush <em>before</em> <br>
the end of 2017.</p>



<a name="136550848"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550848" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550848">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>Has there been any discussion around updating <a href="https://www.rustaceans.org/findwork/impl" target="_blank" title="https://www.rustaceans.org/findwork/impl">https://www.rustaceans.org/findwork/impl</a>?</p>



<a name="136550849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550849">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think an example where that might work out well is <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="131694">@scalexm</span> and I with traits -- not sure who is the senior one there :P</p>



<a name="136550853"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550853" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550853">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>i.e., a "senior" leader -- say, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124287">@mw</span> -- paired up with somebody who hasn't been around as long, presuming we can find people interested :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>that would be an option, especially if the mentee is already epxerienced</p>



<a name="136550861"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550861" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550861">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Has there been any discussion around updating <a href="https://www.rustaceans.org/findwork/impl" target="_blank" title="https://www.rustaceans.org/findwork/impl">https://www.rustaceans.org/findwork/impl</a>?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>not really, I am curious about it because it seems like another model</p>



<a name="136550929"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550929" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550929">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think having functioning working groups with triage might allow us to feed into such a site though</p>



<a name="136550944"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550944" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550944">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>another observation:</p>



<a name="136550952"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550952" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550952">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>there were complaints (accurate!) that the main triage meeting is always over time</p>



<a name="136550964"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550964" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550964">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>one way to help that of course is if we are able to delegate out some of that work</p>



<a name="136550968"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550968" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550968">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>to split the triage meeting?</p>



<a name="136550970"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550970" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550970">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, you'd need a kind of core group that can mentor contributors who don't have so much time</p>



<a name="136550980"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550980" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550980">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>we do have to ensure we stay up on regressions, though, and they generally refuse to fit into a nice category :P</p>



<a name="136550989"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136550989" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136550989">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>to split the triage meeting?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>well e.g. NLL does its own triage</p>



<a name="136551007"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551007" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551007">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's mostly "additional triage" though, but it sometimes includes regressions</p>



<a name="136551015"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551015" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551015">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>NLL just has a lot of bugs</p>



<a name="136551018"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551018" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551018">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>*is not quite production-quality</p>



<a name="136551024"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551024" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551024">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>the triage meeting could still look at everything and just be quick to delegate</p>



<a name="136551027"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551027" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551027">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think this will be true of all new code though=)</p>



<a name="136551072"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551072" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551072">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>yea exactly, the main triage mtg is for old code</p>



<a name="136551082"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551082" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551082">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah ok so maybe it doesn't help much :)</p>



<a name="136551095"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551095" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551095">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>but there do seem to be delays in the main triage mtg while we wait for people with the right expertise</p>



<a name="136551110"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551110" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551110">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. discussing LLVM issues without an LLVM-knowing person, or macro issues without <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="123856">@Vadim Petrochenkov</span></p>



<a name="136551114"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551114" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551114">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>so to circle back, I think these were some of the major points:</p>
<ul>
<li>we'd like to have some bigger goals</li>
<li>more than 1 leader works well, maybe we can use this as a mentoring opportunity</li>
<li>some sort central "T-compiler" landing page would be awesome<br>
    - (I personally think also some consistency in how WG are managed)</li>
<li>we can maybe feed into findwork etc</li>
</ul>



<a name="136551138"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551138" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551138">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>It would be great if there were more working groups like NLL. Relative to NLL, other parts of the compiler are harder to break into.</p>



<a name="136551178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551178">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>but there do seem to be delays in the main triage mtg while we wait for people with the right expertise</p>
</blockquote>
<p>this ties in with the bus factor; it will also always be true that not everybody can make regular meetings</p>



<a name="136551189"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551189" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551189">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>There's not as clear of a path to getting familiar with other parts of the compiler.</p>



<a name="136551194"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551194" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551194">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>this ties in with the bus factor; it will also always be true that not everybody can make regular meetings</p>
</blockquote>
<p>see my comment about <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="123856">@Vadim Petrochenkov</span></p>



<a name="136551206"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551206" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551206">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>right, I'm just saying, we hae to figure out how to deal with it</p>



<a name="136551209"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551209" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551209">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116107">@davidtwco</span> </p>
<p>I think error messages are similar</p>



<a name="136551223"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551223" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551223">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>there are quite a lot of people that can help you work on these</p>



<a name="136551228"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551228" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551228">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>plus decent docs</p>



<a name="136551242"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551242" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551242">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>but there isn't the onboarding leadership</p>



<a name="136551246"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551246" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551246">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>(this reminds me: I would like to see a more focused effort around error messages -- trying to give a more centralized vision, ensure use of consistent vocabulary/jargon, etc)</p>



<a name="136551254"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551254" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551254">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've thought even about a separate team, but WG might be a better fit</p>



<a name="136551260"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551260" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551260">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, I'm wondering if we should look at next topic?</p>



<a name="136551272"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551272" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551272">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me should have set a timer</p>



<a name="136551341"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551341" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551341">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>We should try make some issues or action items for people so that ideas brought up are followed up on and addressed.</p>



<a name="136551342"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551342" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551342">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>well I guess it's only been 10-15 minutes</p>



<a name="136551347"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551347" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551347">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>an hour really isn't long enough to delve into these issues</p>



<a name="136551348"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551348" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551348">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, I was imagining we would do that at the end, but it might be better to do it sooner</p>



<a name="136551357"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551357" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551357">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>an hour really isn't long enough to delve into these issues</p>
</blockquote>
<p>indeed, we've got some "meeting debt" too :)</p>



<a name="136551364"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551364" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551364">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>we could probably have hour-plus meetings on each of these items</p>



<a name="136551372"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551372" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551372">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>so my sense on this particular issue</p>



<a name="136551384"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551384" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551384">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically I would really like to start putting in the effort to seeing some of this stuff happen</p>



<a name="136551388"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551388" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551388">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>we could probably have hour-plus meetings on each of these items</p>
</blockquote>
<p>could branch out async discussions on internals for some of the topics.</p>



<a name="136551389"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551389" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551389">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, making landing page, etc</p>



<a name="136551391"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551391" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551391">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>we could probably have hour-plus meetings on each of these items</p>
</blockquote>
<p>its good to try to start get people <em>thinking</em> about these topics (I know many people already do. but its good to see relative priorities)</p>



<a name="136551393"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551393" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551393">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I plan to kind of take that on</p>



<a name="136551397"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551397" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551397">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure 100% what the action items are though</p>



<a name="136551419"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551419" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551419">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think that it's something to keep in midn</p>



<a name="136551444"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551444" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551444">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>as we go through the planning process for next year</p>



<a name="136551449"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551449" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551449">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>also at Rust All Hands this February</p>



<a name="136551458"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551458" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551458">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was hoping there that as we sort of discuss and draw up plans, we would also be saying</p>



<a name="136551460"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551460" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551460">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126804">@Ariel Ben-Yehuda</span> what do you think would be good to have around diagnostics as an entry point?</p>



<a name="136551462"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551462" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551462">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>"who will head the working group for this thing"</p>



<a name="136551493"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551493" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551493">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>(anyway, I feel good about trying to do some "survey" in this meeting and not just bottom up one thing, but we can stay on this topic if people want)</p>



<a name="136551507"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551507" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551507">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>other topics were:</p>
<ul>
<li>"improving QoL and infrastructure"<br>
    - faster build times (for building <code>rustc</code> itself) (4)<br>
    - bors times (for building <code>rustc</code> itself) (4)</li>
<li>delegating and mentoring to newcomers (4)</li>
<li>technical debt in compiler, heterogeneous structure (3)</li>
</ul>



<a name="136551512"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551512" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551512">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119031">@Esteban Küber</span> </p>
<p>Something like what we did with NLL</p>
<p>A cleaned-up list of issues on a findwork-ey thing, and someone leading the effort on it</p>



<a name="136551515"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551515" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551515">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems like we covered the newcomer question a <em>bit</em></p>



<a name="136551616"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551616" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551616">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>also at Rust All Hands this February</p>
</blockquote>
<p>btw I don't know how broadly this has been announced, I realize — as always it's not being organized as far in advance as it should. But there's been talk of a Rust All Hands in Berlin in early February, much like last year, including official team members (not sure how many other people we'll be able to accommodate yet, I will sync with aturon about that)</p>



<a name="136551623"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551623" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551623">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>wr/t/ errors: A dedicated channel and a known someone to be pinged for when people have questions or want to ask for a good first issue (often easier to ask initially than just comment out of the blue) is helpful.</p>



<a name="136551677"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551677" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551677">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119031">@Esteban Küber</span> I think what I'd like to see for errors is similar to what you've done in the past -- pick some concrete goals, like "no multi-line spans", and then set out to achieve them</p>



<a name="136551682"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551682" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551682">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>wr/t/ errors: A dedicated channel and a known someone to be pinged for when people have questions or want to ask for a good first issue (often easier to ask initially than just comment out of the blue) is helpful.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>above applies to any area though - dedicated spaces and people for asking questions is good from a newcomer perspective.</p>



<a name="136551690"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551690" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551690">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically, identifying some organizational principle feels better than "whack-a-mole"</p>



<a name="136551721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551721">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116107">@davidtwco</span> I'm usually triaging tickets in the backlog and marking them with easy and mentor (or needs mentor when scope is murkier) and try to be available on gh. Having a separate site is only good if we solve the discoverability issue, but I absolutely agree.</p>



<a name="136551729"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551729" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551729">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's possible that the issue label structure could <em>vaguely</em> mirror the (working) group structure</p>



<a name="136551732"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551732" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551732">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't necessarily mean a separate site so much as a #diagnostics channel here (or in Discord, but Zulip is better <span class="emoji emoji-1f61d" title="stuck out tongue">:stuck_out_tongue:</span>).</p>



<a name="136551735"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551735" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551735">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>the issue tracker is a fairly bad todo list</p>



<a name="136551789"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551789" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Ariel Ben-Yehuda <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551789">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>at least, the way I know to use it</p>



<a name="136551791"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551791" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551791">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>then the group responsible for a label could also be responsible for trying to add <code>E-mentor</code> to as many as possible ;)</p>



<a name="136551793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551793">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>btw we're 40 minutes into the meeting, my sense is that we should stay with this general focus — but I'm interested in talking a bit more about the onboarding etc process in a bit more detail, since we seem to be circling that topic</p>



<a name="136551796"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551796" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551796">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing that I"d like to raise as a possible Working Group responsibility: documentation</p>



<a name="136551799"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551799" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551799">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I constantly feel guilty about not spending more time on rustc-guide ;)</p>



<a name="136551812"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551812" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551812">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I know that when I was picking out a first issue, it was easier for me to jump in a WG Gitter channel and ask for a good first issue than assigning myself something from a list - something about that was less daunting or felt less likely to make a mistake. Having dedicated spaces so newcomers can do that is a good thing.</p>



<a name="136551821"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551821" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551821">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>in general, I think the compiler is still pretty lacking in high-level docs, I'd like to discuss if we can make that a bit more of our workflow. I had hoped that focused WG would give us a bit more opportunity to write out the designs we have in mind</p>



<a name="136551838"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551838" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551838">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>we've never had much success with T-compiler RFCs, they don't feel like a great fit</p>



<a name="136551897"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551897" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551897">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>for wg-traits, I had hoped to use rustc-guide chapters instead, edited as necessary — not sure yet if that will work :)</p>



<a name="136551913"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551913" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551913">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116107">@davidtwco</span> that coment makes me think that we should have a poll aimed at the people that have started contributing very recently to hear their perspective... There might be blind spots we're not seeing...</p>



<a name="136551915"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551915" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551915">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>re: specific action items, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116107">@davidtwco</span>, maybe one is to come up with a list of possible working groups we can "retcon into existence"</p>



<a name="136551923"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551923" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551923">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>though I think it's best not to create too much structure in advance, I'm wary of making groups that we don't have the bandwidth to really make true</p>



<a name="136551936"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551936" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551936">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>we should have a poll aimed at the people that have started contributing very recently to hear their perspective</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I like this idea</p>



<a name="136551942"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551942" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551942">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>another action item =)</p>



<a name="136551951"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551951" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551951">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm debating now — we've got about ~15 minutes left — can we focus on some small, concrete things we can do?</p>



<a name="136551997"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136551997" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136551997">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I will admit that I only recently started seriously looking at the rustc-guide</p>



<a name="136552004"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552004" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552004">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>if somebody wanted to take the lead on organizing a survey — doesn't seem especially hard — I'd be into it</p>



<a name="136552007"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552007" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552007">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm sort of curious whether there are others in a similar boat</p>



<a name="136552017"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552017" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552017">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm thinking now that I've started reading it that I'd like to help improve it</p>



<a name="136552018"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552018" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552018">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>re: rustc-guide, I decided to make a weekly spot to write on it</p>



<a name="136552026"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552026" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552026">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>actually, it's an obvious WG :P</p>



<a name="136552030"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552030" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552030">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>w/r/t documentation - I have a clear memory that when <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> and I had an <a href="http://appear.in" target="_blank" title="http://appear.in">appear.in</a> call to discuss an issue and he was explaining some concept and then related it to the code we were looking at - that helped clear things up 10x more than any documentation I'd read in a guide. IIRC it was about universal regions <code>'_#0r</code> being X, and <code>'_#1r</code> being Y and then seeing the calls at the top of the MIR code that made those - it clicked way more. </p>
<p>tl;dr relate documentation to the code more.</p>



<a name="136552031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552031">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it needs a good leader</p>



<a name="136552054"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552054" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552054">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116107">@davidtwco</span> question, when you say "the code"...</p>



<a name="136552058"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552058" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552058">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>While <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> is (certainly) a good leader, I think their talents are best invested elsewhere ?</p>



<a name="136552063"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552063" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552063">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I really like to see in comments is Rust code examples</p>



<a name="136552072"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552072" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552072">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>and links between that Rust code example and the variables in the code</p>



<a name="136552077"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552077" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552077">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>is that the kind of thing you mean?</p>



<a name="136552079"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552079" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552079">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>this can go stale very quick</p>



<a name="136552133"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552133" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552133">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>While <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> is (certainly) a good leader, I think their talents are best invested elsewhere ?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah, I think I don't have time, I plan to be focused on traits + finishing up NLL</p>



<a name="136552140"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552140" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552140">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>this can go stale very quick</p>
</blockquote>
<p>my sense is (a) that's part of the job but also (b) stale is better than zero</p>



<a name="136552141"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552141" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552141">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>personally, I almost always prefer having stale comments to no comments at all</p>



<a name="136552145"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552145" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552145">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>This might just be me, but I struggle to relate some of the concepts discussed in the documentation with the code that makes those things concrete.</p>



<a name="136552159"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552159" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552159">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>also, I don't think it goes stale <em>that</em> quickly</p>



<a name="136552173"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552173" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552173">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>you'd be surprised how slowly the compiler moves sometimes :P</p>



<a name="136552185"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552185" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552185">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>a constant barrage of newcomers is one way to continuously test the docs</p>



<a name="136552193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552193">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>There are things that aren't going to change that much where comments won't go that stale, and there are places where they will go out of date.</p>



<a name="136552195"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552195" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552195">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>This might just be me, but I struggle to relate some of the concepts discussed in the documentation with the code that makes those things concrete.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>right, I'm trying to get a sense for what helps to make those connections (besides video calls) :)</p>



<a name="136552254"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552254" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552254">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I second the fact that the video calls are extremely useful as a mentoring tool</p>



<a name="136552262"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552262" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552262">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>unfortunately they don't scale :(</p>



<a name="136552263"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552263" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552263">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I originally hoped for with rustc-guide was that we would avoid too many links to the code; I've revised that opinion since I think it is better to link to the code (particularly with checked links to the API docs, so we know when they go stale), as it makes for better docs</p>



<a name="136552268"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552268" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552268">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>right, I'm trying to get a sense for what helps to make those connections (besides video calls) <span class="emoji emoji-1f642" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah, I'm going to think on this and see if I can't get myself a clearer idea of why.</p>



<a name="136552269"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552269" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552269">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>did any of the newomcers here watch the captured sessions that Niko had posted?</p>



<a name="136552272"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552272" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552272">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>(which reminds me that I want to bug <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125254">@kennytm</span> about getting the automatic comments when PRs break rustc-guide links)</p>



<a name="136552274"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552274" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matklad <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552274">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>re doc-code: there's a way to automatically link code and tests, by checking coverage automatically. <br>
If some tests were included in the docs, that would make doc-code link checkable.</p>



<a name="136552278"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552278" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552278">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I had the impression that <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span>  had posted them as a way of sharing knowledge transfer</p>



<a name="136552283"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552283" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552283">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I re-watched older ones I had with niko when doing issues in that area after having not done any for a while.</p>



<a name="136552290"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552290" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552290">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, I tried that. Not sure if people really watched them</p>



<a name="136552292"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552292" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552292">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>interesting</p>



<a name="136552298"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552298" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552298">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I watched one</p>



<a name="136552302"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552302" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552302">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>(niko and santiago)</p>



<a name="136552305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552305">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>If I forget how universal regions works, that's still my go-to video.</p>



<a name="136552323"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552323" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552323">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>its possible that's a way we could attempt to scale up that kind of knowledge xfer. Maybe.</p>



<a name="136552328"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552328" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552328">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>though of course that <em>definitely</em> can go stale</p>



<a name="136552376"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552376" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552376">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Action Items:</p>
<ul>
<li>Organize newcomer poll</li>
<li>Brainstorm some WGs or two? Maybe try to find a leader for rustc-guide?</li>
<li>Sketch T-compiler landing page?</li>
</ul>
<p>One possible though:</p>
<ul>
<li>Write-up "how to lead a WG"? -- basically capture lessons from NLL? this would be a WIP...</li>
</ul>



<a name="136552382"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552382" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552382">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>where do I find those videos?</p>



<a name="136552404"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552404" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552404">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCQVvhKUrTN9VfaQx2AyOSAstwENaGkYA" target="_blank" title="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCQVvhKUrTN9VfaQx2AyOSAstwENaGkYA">https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCQVvhKUrTN9VfaQx2AyOSAstwENaGkYA</a></p>



<a name="136552405"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552405" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552405">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p><del>Would it make sense to have a youtube playlist with these videos? (If there isn't one already?)</del> :)</p>



<a name="136552408"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552408" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552408">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we can make a better one</p>



<a name="136552413"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552413" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552413">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd be game to do one video per week :)</p>



<a name="136552426"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552426" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552426">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>we could grow the set much faster</p>



<a name="136552437"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552437" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552437">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've thought about a "rustc office hours"</p>



<a name="136552439"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552439" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552439">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically make that...</p>



<a name="136552448"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552448" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552448">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I can just add a "rustc slot" into my <a href="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/office-hours" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/office-hours">https://github.com/nikomatsakis/office-hours</a> setup</p>



<a name="136552451"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552451" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552451">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>(others could too:)</p>



<a name="136552519"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552519" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Vadim Petrochenkov <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552519">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>This might just be me, but I struggle to relate some of the concepts discussed in the documentation with the code that makes those things concrete.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I find code itself the best documentation, but only if it's written in the "executable pseudo-code" style without digressing into advanced optimizations or error reporting.</p>



<a name="136552540"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552540" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552540">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>sometimes, yes... my sense is that code is often lacking the "high-level view" of what is happening. Reading code tends to be sort of "bottom up"</p>



<a name="136552554"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552554" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Vadim Petrochenkov <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552554">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's why I'm annoyed by the diagnostic PRs that insert fancy diagnostics logic right in the middle of "language specification" code.</p>



<a name="136552559"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552559" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552559">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>For me personally, the biggest thing around this sort of topic, after contributing for I think a year now, is being able to get a broader working knowledge about the compiler (so I'd be useful in these areas) where there aren't active working groups. It's a bit more of an "intermediate-ish contributor" rather than "newcomer contributor" issue.</p>



<a name="136552565"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552565" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552565">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's an interesting question how to better separate those concerns; <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119031">@Esteban Küber</span> and I have talked a lot about factoring out the diagnostic details, in part to enable a <code>--teach</code> mode and so forth</p>



<a name="136552569"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552569" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552569">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>we've never really done it though :)</p>



<a name="136552620"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552620" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552620">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116107">@davidtwco</span> yes, this transition is a hard one. You basically walked the path I had always hoped to see: using the working group to tackle issue after issue. The next step, working on more things, is definitely harder.</p>



<a name="136552634"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552634" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552634">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>That's why I'm annoyed by the diagnostic PRs that insert fancy diagnostics logic right in the middle of "language specification" code.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I like the approach taken by NLL where there's a clear-er split between the error reporting and the analysis (how applicable this is elsewhere, I don't know), but it makes making changes and understanding things much easier IMO.</p>



<a name="136552647"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552647" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552647">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>it'd be interesting to record debugging or implementing something in rustc from start to finish (writing about it works too, but a continuous flow of thought might be more insightful), for people to get a better understanding of the compiler's structure from those familiar with it</p>



<a name="136552656"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552656" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552656">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't know if the split in NLL is as clear/clean as one might hope...</p>



<a name="136552660"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552660" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552660">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maybe that's what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span>'s videos are like; I haven't looked at them (yet))</p>



<a name="136552662"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552662" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matklad <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552662">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>IIRC, in Kotlin, compiler-part emits only bare-bones diagnostics, and all fancy stuff is handled by IDE plugin.</p>



<a name="136552670"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552670" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552670">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>A big point of contention in my mind is that there's going to be bastardization of the logic regardless of wether we mode the diagnostic code out of the way in order to enable those diagnostics (think about the parser accepting incorrect code that would seem reasonable to a newcomer in order to properly suggest changes in the diagnostic). There's no way around that, I fear...</p>



<a name="136552679"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552679" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Zoxc <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552679">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>By landing page do you mean a wiki or something more static like <a href="https://forge.rust-lang.org/" target="_blank" title="https://forge.rust-lang.org/">https://forge.rust-lang.org/</a> ? It would be nice to have a place where you can find high level plans and more detailed TODOs</p>



<a name="136552686"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552686" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552686">(Oct 26 2018 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>you definitely have to thread more stuff around</p>



<a name="136552779"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552779" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552779">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116466">@Zoxc</span> I mean something a bit more static -- it would change when new working groups are created etc, but mostly be links to the landing pages for a WG, whcih would have links to GH queries and things to find active issues (I think?)</p>



<a name="136552794"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552794" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552794">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>sadly, those WG landing pages often do go quite stale</p>



<a name="136552800"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552800" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552800">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>it'd be interesting to record debugging or implementing something in rustc from start to finish (writing about it works too, but a continuous flow of thought might be more insightful), for people to get a better understanding of the compiler's structure from those familiar with it</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I've thought it might be beneficial to write a blog for each issue I do, trying to break down my thought process and how I tackle the issue, explaining concepts as I touch them, but I wasn't ever sure how useful it'd be.</p>



<a name="136552801"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552801" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552801">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>probably best to keep them minimal:</p>



<a name="136552806"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552806" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552806">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>find us on Zulip, here is out GH label, etc</p>



<a name="136552813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552813">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I hate to be the time keeper but we're at 60min</p>



<a name="136552816"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552816" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552816">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>but ideally it would kind of sketch out a roadmap and show where you are¨)</p>



<a name="136552822"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552822" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552822">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>so I hate to be the time keeper but we're at 60min</p>
</blockquote>
<p>was just going to mention that</p>



<a name="136552825"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552825" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552825">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can take the aciton item to write-up a summary of this meeting</p>



<a name="136552843"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552843" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552843">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>not sure if we came up with anything else <em>that</em> concrete to do yet</p>



<a name="136552851"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552851" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552851">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think it'd be interesting just to read back over the log and try to ponder what was said, to start</p>



<a name="136552857"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552857" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552857">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>a WG for rustc-guide might be an interesting thing to try to pull in volunteers for ...</p>



<a name="136552863"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552863" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552863">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="136552867"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552867" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552867">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me loves that idea</p>



<a name="136552905"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552905" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552905">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>its tough because on the one hand you need the expert knowledge</p>



<a name="136552918"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552918" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552918">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I'd be willing to be a go-between there, in terms of tracking down the experts when necessary...</p>



<a name="136552924"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552924" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552924">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes so</p>



<a name="136552927"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552927" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552927">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>a WG for rustc-guide might be an interesting thing to try to pull in volunteers for ...</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I'd be concerned that it wouldn't be that easy to document the compiler like this without having a bunch of experience in a given module - limiting the contributor pool to the WG quite a lot. Maybe it wouldn't be that bad though.</p>



<a name="136552940"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552940" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552940">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>the thing I always want to do -- <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116883">@tmandry</span> and I were planning to try it -- was to do e.g. videos and explain things to someone and have them try to write, but I'm not sure if that will work :)</p>



<a name="136552956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552956">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>it might be too hard</p>



<a name="136552969"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552969" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552969">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Its possible that new-comers could assist with identifying what needs to be documented and peeling back the layers of the onion</p>



<a name="136552970"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552970" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552970">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>In which case it feels like maybe we just need a pact among some of us to spend some time writing up something every week or something. =)</p>



<a name="136552974"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136552974" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136552974">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, providing feedback is invaluable</p>



<a name="136553025"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553025" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553025">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>Another thing is that we can/should do more documentation of development <em>patterns</em></p>



<a name="136553028"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553028" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553028">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>like how we use <code>#[rustc_attributes]</code> to expose compiler internals</p>



<a name="136553029"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553029" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553029">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>get a newcomer to go through the code and ask questions, then anwer those questions in the guide</p>



<a name="136553032"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553032" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553032">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>for testing</p>



<a name="136553039"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553039" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553039">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>confirm, the "writing tests" section is sort of anemic right now</p>



<a name="136553041"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553041" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553041">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>especially as we are changing there</p>



<a name="136553046"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553046" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553046">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., migrating from run-pass</p>



<a name="136553054"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553054" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553054">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh. that's true. hmm.</p>



<a name="136553059"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553059" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553059">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I somehow forgot that. :)</p>



<a name="136553076"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553076" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553076">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>compiletest improvements was a topic I forgot to include in the survey feedback and only remembered yesterday.</p>



<a name="136553124"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553124" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553124">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>all right I gotta run — I'll do a write-up – feel free to keep chatting I suppose though :)</p>



<a name="136553136"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553136" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553136">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd like to start a rustc-guide-wg topic though before I go, maybe :)</p>



<a name="136553152"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553152" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553152">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>(i gotta go too; thanks so much to everyone for attending! especially people like <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126804">@Ariel Ben-Yehuda</span> who I know are ... semi-retired? Wrong wording...)</p>



<a name="136553191"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136553191" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136553191">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, definitely! I am happy whenever I see <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126804">@Ariel Ben-Yehuda</span> or <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="123856">@Vadim Petrochenkov</span> online :) <span class="emoji emoji-1f60d" title="heart eyes">:heart_eyes:</span></p>



<a name="136555108"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136555108" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136555108">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>First shot at a summary: <a href="https://gist.github.com/nikomatsakis/6ab04ba03db6f7a8de5fd1a75758f7b0" target="_blank" title="https://gist.github.com/nikomatsakis/6ab04ba03db6f7a8de5fd1a75758f7b0">link</a></p>
<p>Also, something that occurred to me: with respect to the issue of WG landing pages getting out of date, and not necessarily doing the "homework" to track out goals, if we keep up with these meetings, that is an opportunity for us to update said pages. (Indeed, the meeting structure could be to go to the landing page of each WG and read out the updates -- so they had better be updated!)</p>



<a name="136555143"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136555143" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136555143">(Oct 26 2018 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/compiler-steering-committee-meeting/8588/16?u=nikomatsakis" target="_blank" title="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/compiler-steering-committee-meeting/8588/16?u=nikomatsakis">Summary posted here.</a></p>



<a name="136560492"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering%20meeting%202018-10-26/near/136560492" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/steering.20meeting.202018-10-26.html#136560492">(Oct 26 2018 at 17:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Aww I missed it <span class="emoji emoji-1f641" title="frown">:frown:</span></p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
</html>